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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:33 am 
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Okay so far I've haven't had too many troubles with this game thus far, but this jets puzzle has completely brought my progress to a screeching halt. You see I'm red green colorblind, so the combination of certain frogs is extremely difficult for me to tell. I hate to say this but could someone just plain and simple tell me what frog combos I need to use and in what order? I managed to get the blue frogs and now I'm stuck.

Again, normally I'd just figure this sorta stuff on my own but trial and error and constantly grinding for money to buy more frogs doesn't sound like my idea of a good time. :c


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:58 am 
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You don't need to see the color difference to solve the puzzle. The jets can be read and the frogs can be scanned, which will give you specific color numbers in plain text.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:08 pm 
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Combine_Kegan wrote:
Okay so far I've haven't had too many troubles with this game thus far, but this jets puzzle has completely brought my progress to a screeching halt. You see I'm red green colorblind, so the combination of certain frogs is extremely difficult for me to tell. I hate to say this but could someone just plain and simple tell me what frog combos I need to use and in what order? I managed to get the blue frogs and now I'm stuck.

Again, normally I'd just figure this sorta stuff on my own but trial and error and constantly grinding for money to buy more frogs doesn't sound like my idea of a good time. :c


Hi Combine_Kegan! Sorry if this puzzle made it seem like you needed to see the colors. I was careful to make sure this puzzle would be solvable even if you were color-blind. Most people probably do not use the colors themselves to solve it.

Related question: How was the puzzle in the formation? Was there any trial-and-error for you in figuring out which card goes in which machine? I just realized that this puzzle may cause even more problems for people with color blindness. If need be I can probably redesign this without too much effort.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:46 pm 
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PsySal wrote:
Combine_Kegan wrote:
Okay so far I've haven't had too many troubles with this game thus far, but this jets puzzle has completely brought my progress to a screeching halt. You see I'm red green colorblind, so the combination of certain frogs is extremely difficult for me to tell. I hate to say this but could someone just plain and simple tell me what frog combos I need to use and in what order? I managed to get the blue frogs and now I'm stuck.

Again, normally I'd just figure this sorta stuff on my own but trial and error and constantly grinding for money to buy more frogs doesn't sound like my idea of a good time. :c


Hi Combine_Kegan! Sorry if this puzzle made it seem like you needed to see the colors. I was careful to make sure this puzzle would be solvable even if you were color-blind. Most people probably do not use the colors themselves to solve it.

Related question: How was the puzzle in the formation? Was there any trial-and-error for you in figuring out which card goes in which machine? I just realized that this puzzle may cause even more problems for people with color blindness. If need be I can probably redesign this without too much effort.


I didn't have too much trouble with the formation puzzle, as the barrier colors you picked were all very noticeably different from one another. I appreciate the concern there though, and can certainly respect a dev who's willing to frequent his forums to check up on the people playing his game.

EDIT:

Also when I read the jets I get messages along the lines of: ....I...-....I....-..I.... I'm assuming there's something to be figured out here, could maybe someone give me a hint as to what needs to be done with this?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:16 pm 
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It took me a bit to figure that out as well. The text description refers to it as a gauge, I believe, and that's a good hint.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:52 am 
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seorin wrote:
It took me a bit to figure that out as well. The text description refers to it as a gauge, I believe, and that's a good hint.


Oh geez I just noticed you can add a third frog, potentially switching up how the vents work. This puzzle is WAY over my head.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:46 am 
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Combine: I had the exact same reaction as you when I found this puzzle, which was:

1. Oh shit, will I be able to solve this being colorblind?

2. THIS IS WAY TOO COMPLICATED.

Fortunately neither is really true. As noted, colors aren't necessary (you can read the vents - yes, that pattern does mean something - and you can scan the frogs in the machine). You can figure out what the symbols mead through trial and error, scanning the frogs, reading the vents, seeing what the connection is.

As far as "adding a third frog," check the lab manual (on the desk on a table in the upper right). That should explain what happens when a third frog is added.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:44 am 
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aerothorn wrote:
Combine: I had the exact same reaction as you when I found this puzzle, which was:

1. Oh shit, will I be able to solve this being colorblind?

2. THIS IS WAY TOO COMPLICATED.

Fortunately neither is really true. As noted, colors aren't necessary (you can read the vents - yes, that pattern does mean something - and you can scan the frogs in the machine). You can figure out what the symbols mead through trial and error, scanning the frogs, reading the vents, seeing what the connection is.

As far as "adding a third frog," check the lab manual (on the desk on a table in the upper right). That should explain what happens when a third frog is added.


So I've noticed, it's ultimately some kinda strange math equation kinda thing. I am HORRIBLE at math.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:52 pm 
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It's actually not math intensive at all, since you're just adding single digits. I found it to be easier than the Formation (which was probably my favorite area in the game), but I also have a lot of experience with extremely complicated puzzles.

Here's another (pretty big) hint: remember that you can reset the pool so that it has no color, turning every jet back on. Why would you ever need or want to do this? If you can't answer that, the jets will seem very inconsistent and unpredictable, but they're really not.

That's about all I can say about that without giving it away completely. However, I was able to solve the puzzle before I figured out the important bit above, so I'll also give a hint as to how I did it (very spoilery, select to read):
Quote:
The puzzle is vulnerable to metasolving, by which I mean that its linear progression tells you that you must use the frog you found most recently in order to progress. Intuition and gauge reading will easily tell you what other frog to use.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:19 pm 
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I'm sorry this is still all out of my league, every other puzzle in this game has been fairly simple for me but this one just continues to completely stump me. I assume I don't need to hit the reset button ever, so I put the frogs in the order I've found them thus far, that doesn't open anything up, and I STILL don't get what I'm supposed to be looking at here.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:08 am 
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Posts: 49
Maybe it could help if I re-word what you're supposed to learn from the notebook:
-Both frogs and jets have RGB values from 1-3.
-When a jet's values are all 3 or higher, the jet turns off.
-Throwing a frog in the pool adds the frog's value to all jets.
-The pool is only affected by the two most recent frogs.

Thus the goal is to use the right frogs to turn off various jets which block you.

Here are some more specific examples of how it all works:
Quote:
When you first start, there is nothing in the pool and your only frog is 1-0-0 (in other words, one red and nothing else). That means you're looking to turn off a jet that has a value of 1-3-3 or 2-3-3. By adding red to the pool, the jet's R value reaches 3, and since that makes all of its values 3 or higher, it turns off.

This gets you a green (0-1-0) frog (if I remember correctly). That means you can now turn off a 3-1-3 jet (two green frogs), a 3-2-3 jet (one green frog and one anything else), and a 2-2-3 jet (one green and one red frog), in addition to the two jets you could turn off before. Finding and turning off the appropriate jet will get you another frog, which will let you turn off more jets, and so on.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:26 am 
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Well I added two green frogs and disabled a jet that looked blue to my eyes, opened a chest and found another green frog that was lighter in color and had the value of 1 red and 1 green. I give up, this is totally over my head


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:18 am 
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Combine_Kegan wrote:
Well I added two green frogs and disabled a jet that looked blue to my eyes


You shouldn't be looking at jet color. I ignored their color completely (my color vision is perfect, but even I couldn't tell what colors they were supposed to be). Instead you should read the jets like you did earlier. That text that looks like "I.......-....I....-.......I" is meaningful.

If you can't at all figure out what it means, here's a method that should help you figure it out. Don't read this unless you're truly hopeless, though:
Quote:
First, reset the color on the pool. Then, read all the jets in the room and screenshot or write down the text. Finally, add one red or green frog and go around reading the jets again. Pay attention to how the text has changed and you should easily figure out how to get the RGB information you need from reading jets instead of trying to guess their color by sight.

I honestly can't tell you any more without just telling you outright how the whole thing works. I know it's frustrating when you feel like you can't make progress, but try to stick with it and I really think you'll figure out the rest. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Oh my lord I was overthinking it. When you read the jets, that's not supposed to be text it's

Quote:
A gauge, the I's represents needles. Holy crap why didn't I think of that


Okay so I figured how to read the jets and all but I'm still having troubles figuring out how to cancel streams out, the way the manual hints it it seems you need to have the readout in the pool opposite that of what stream you want off, but that's not the case, so once again I am at a roadblock, this is all incredibly confusing. I also managed to get past that large statue that emits radiation by using my gun's recoil to push myself to the switch before I died. So I got that light colored frog that's 1 Green and 1 Blue


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:04 am 
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A jet turns off when all color values are 3 or higher. It's as simple as adding the (unmodified) jet value to the value of the last 2 frogs in the pool.

Example:

Jet color: 1-3-2
Frog A: 1-0-1
Frog B: 1-0-0

Add up the columns and they're all 3, so the jet turns off. If frog B were 1-1-0, it would make no difference, because the G value is still 3 or higher. So you're just concerned with bumping up every value to a minimum of 3.


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