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 Post subject: Hammon fight.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:38 pm 
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The major issue with the Hammon fight is this: I am assuming the meteors are supposed to do splash damage based on where the red target reticle is? Similar to TNT, yes? Instead they only do damage where they pass through the screen on their way to the reticle. I have stood on the red targets repeatedly and have taken zero damage from the impact, but I have been killed 40+ times (seriously, I kept a tally :shock: ) by the meteors striking me on the way to their target. I have been killed 10+ times before the fight even starts during Hammon's speech because of this. There is nothing more frustrating than blowing off 3 of Hammon's legs and then die because a meteor that you cannot see comes from offscreen and kills you. Especially when you are also juggling Hammon and the 4+ bandits he will spawn.

A secondary issue is TNT. The lack of TNT available drags the fight on to the point where it goes from being challenging to being tedious. Having a respawning stash of 5 sticks or so nearby (a gift from the shopkeep?) that you could pick up prior to the fight would alleviate this. The meteors could also spawn them. It gets very very grindy to have to build up a TNT stockpile by just killing bandits. Not so much in the later half of the fight when Hammon starts spawning 4, but prior to that the fight just drags on. Plus it gets very frustrating to watch your TNT stash deplete because the ham hock bounced out of the way at the last second. Alternatively being able to have a save file that you could load instead of the one auto-save would help with this or being able to respawn with the items that you had prior to the fight would also drop the frustration level a good deal so you don't have to backtrack constantly to get supplies for this fight.

Lastly, the legendary rifle. I read that you could one shot Hammon with it but whenever I use it he does this Psycho Crusher spin thing and knocks it out of my hands. I assume this is intentional and you need to blow off his legs first. Sometimes when I have used it, however, Hammon will get locked into his Psycho Crusher animation and won't come out of it. He will stay there forever and the only thing to do is to save and quit.

Anyway, sorry to dump all that negativity. It really is a fantastic game, but this is the one part where the game feels really imbalanced.


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 Post subject: Re: Hammon fight.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:44 pm 
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I definitely beat Hammon without having to do anything besides shoot him once with the rifle. He does a jump thing and knocks it out of your hands if you're not quick enough, but (at least in 1.0) it was just a matter of being quick about it.

It seems like I probably fought him in a way that wasn't intended, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Hammon fight.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Location: http://kittylambda.com
Hi everybody!

1. The issue with the meteors, both in terms of how they deal damage and whether or not they deal damage during the intro cutscene has been fixed with 1.2. Sorry this was basically just sloppy of me, didn't really notice it until somebody else pointed it out.

2. With 1.2 the battle with Hammon has been changed so you can leave mid-battle. This was the original design for this segment, but I changed it at the last minute I think due to desperation over bugs. This is to alleviate the TNT (and another) issue.

3. With 1.1 it was changed so you can't one-shot him. I don't mind it in one sense (alternate solution) but the battle is far more interesting if you can't just one-shot him. It wasn't the intended solution that you could do this, basically it was a bug. In 1.0 a lot of people one-shotted him, so that will cause some confusion in terms of advice given here.

Thanks for your feedback!

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 Post subject: Hammon fight Round 2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:22 am 
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After the 1.2 patch this fight goes a lot smoother. Not getting sucker punched by the meteors is a big improvement and being able to catch your breath one screen away helps immensely. Thanks!

However I noticed that a new glitch has cropped up. Sometimes when you leave the area and come back Hammon will return to his starting point at the center of the Free Market Square. The boss music will still be playing but Hammon will not move and will be in his starting sitting position. You cannot affect him in anyway and the only thing to do is save and quit. It only seems to trigger if you travel a more than a few screens away. it always happened when I was running back to the store to buy TNT or to pick up a silver bullet. It never happened when I just moved one screen away.


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 Post subject: Re: Hammon fight Round 2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:18 am 
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zzz wrote:
After the 1.2 patch this fight goes a lot smoother. Not getting sucker punched by the meteors is a big improvement and being able to catch your breath one screen away helps immensely. Thanks!

However I noticed that a new glitch has cropped up. Sometimes when you leave the area and come back Hammon will return to his starting point at the center of the Free Market Square. The boss music will still be playing but Hammon will not move and will be in his starting sitting position. You cannot affect him in anyway and the only thing to do is save and quit. It only seems to trigger if you travel a more than a few screens away. it always happened when I was running back to the store to buy TNT or to pick up a silver bullet. It never happened when I just moved one screen away.


Ach, bug! Thank you. Sorry about that. I'm sure you are right, I didn't test this if I went more than one screen away. When you go more than few screens away, certain things reset and that is likely affecting this.

Glad to hear it's generally going smoother, though! This battle was a huge effort to implement due to the sheer number of attacks/etc., so I think I just got exhausted by it and didn't polish roperly. I wish I had polished it to it's current state in the first place. It was not quite right in 1.0 or 1.1 but it works the way I think I originally intended, now. =)

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 Post subject: Re: Hammon fight.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:48 am 
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Hi there,
So you can one shot Hammon with version 1.0??
Any chance of putting in a difficulty option in 1.3 that allows this?
This would help people like me who just can't manage boss battles and just tend to give up and uninstall things.
PS I almost finished 'Legend of Grimrock'. Rather than go through the tedium of the end of game boss battle I just watched the ending on youtube.


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 Post subject: Re: Hammon fight.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:10 am 
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mugsy wrote:
Hi there,
So you can one shot Hammon with version 1.0??
Any chance of putting in a difficulty option in 1.3 that allows this?
This would help people like me who just can't manage boss battles and just tend to give up and uninstall things.
PS I almost finished 'Legend of Grimrock'. Rather than go through the tedium of the end of game boss battle I just watched the ending on youtube.


It probably won't be for 1.3, but I am going to put in an invincibility mode you can choose. This isn't just for folks like you but also for people who may need it for accessibility reasons (e.g., reduced motor control.)

Actually this may be possible for 1.3. There is a single function on the player class that is used to determine e.g., during cutscenes if the player can be hurt. If I make this always return true, then it should do the trick. I will really need to test this out, though, but based on this feedback (and the reasonableness of the request in general) I might just put this in.

Really I think games should be about choice, the players own it once it's released so I prefer to put more options in as to how you want to play, even if I did envision it a certain way.

Also there will be a certain thing changed with 1.3 that may make Hammon a bit easier. It's a very slight change and not to the boss itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Hammon fight.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:58 am 
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Posts: 14
Aha, fantastic.
I must admit that I do feel a bit inferior to everyone who has beaten Hammon but with an invincibility mode that I can temporarily switch on I can pretend that I'm Julian Assange for brief periods of time.


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 Post subject: Re: Hammon fight.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:25 am 
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Posts: 37
PsySal wrote:
It probably won't be for 1.3, but I am going to put in an invincibility mode you can choose. This isn't just for folks like you but also for people who may need it for accessibility reasons (e.g., reduced motor control.)

Actually this may be possible for 1.3. There is a single function on the player class that is used to determine e.g., during cutscenes if the player can be hurt. If I make this always return true, then it should do the trick. I will really need to test this out, though, but based on this feedback (and the reasonableness of the request in general) I might just put this in.

Really I think games should be about choice, the players own it once it's released so I prefer to put more options in as to how you want to play, even if I did envision it a certain way.
.


This sounds fantastic. Hopefully this is a toggle option. Would this help me with the breakout "boss"? I'm tired now and do not want to try it again and again.

I know some gamers (young and old) with rheumatism having diffificulties with games in general. I for myself have rheumatism in my hands, which makes it sometimes difficult to be trigger happy in games.
I know it's hard for a developer to change his vision of the game to appeal different groups of gamers and so i'm glad that you thinking about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Hammon fight.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:53 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:01 am
Posts: 41
For some reason when I go into slow mo with the game getts really choppy and my aim moves slow. I would prefer that you speed didn't change and everyone elses did.


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 Post subject: Re: Hammon fight.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:13 am 
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sk2k wrote:
I know some gamers (young and old) with rheumatism having diffificulties with games in general. I for myself have rheumatism in my hands, which makes it sometimes difficult to be trigger happy in games.


Yeah, I knew I was getting old when I started getting serious carpal tunnel recently. A lifetime of gaming is worth it, imo, but it's also kind of a bummer to know I'm gonna have to either change my control scheme (and buy special gamepads or something) or cut back on the more active games.

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